48 replies to this topic

[Flying Blind]

ok so I was reading another thread that claimed the proportion of Mechs was off and even though that thread got stupid fast it got me thinking. I figured I could use jump height to judge how tall things were since the jump height is listed in the mechlab for every jump capable mech. my first jump yardstick build was a raven 4x that could jump 10 meters. seemed like a good number since that is how tall most mechs should be. I flew over the top of every mech out there even the Atlas with room to spare. so I took a jump jet off and tried again with a jump distance of 5 meters. the video below is the result. unless I misunderstand how jump jets work this seems to indicate that Atlases are just under 5 meters tall, and that's not right.

http://youtu.be/6_wUQPSyZ-0

[Monkey Bone]

PGI Fix plz.

Well bigger is always better...

[LordBraxton]

well not only did you jump OVER the atlas but you traveled between 50-100 meters during the jump moving forward as well.

So idk wtf 5 meters means

[hashinshin]

I'd like to take this time to say: Thank god for easy video uploading.

[xDeityx]

I'm sure the solution is to adjust the jumpjet numbers rather than remodel all the 'mechs. Once they fix those so that they are accurate you can try this test again.

Great job though, that was a good idea for testing actual height.

Scale is a huge part of balancing a 'mech, so we really need to stay on PGI about getting it right.

[PurpleNinja]

It's the measure system PGI adopted.
Even double doesn't mean x2.

[Pando]

PurpleNinja, on 27 February 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

It's the measure system PGI adopted.
Even double doesn't mean x2.

lol ....that's just wrong bro.

Edited by Pando, 27 February 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Kobold]

Love the paint job on the Raven, btw.

[Terror Teddy]

Or the jumpjets have higher initial boost to send you more UP before they send you forward instead of an even parabolic arc. Either that or the number information in regards to how far a jump is completely whacked.

Let's see if i can find it...

Mechs (height)
Light => Commando (25 ton) = 9m
Medium => Enforcer (50 ton) = 12m
Heavy => Grashopper (70 ton) = 14m
Assault => Banshee (95 ton) = 15.2m

Now we all know that the IWM and RPE miniatures aren't to scale, but a lot of us thought that the Armorcast 1:60 (advertised) were to scale:
Atlas (100 ton) => 10.5" (26.5cm) = ~16m
Mad Cat (75 ton) => 8.25" (21cm) = ~12.5m
Vulture (60 ton) => 8.25" (21cm) = ~12.5m

I mean, if you can make a jump of ONLY 10 meters then you cant even jump the LENGTH of an Atlas which you clearly can. Also, add the fact that your OWN speed influence the jump which makes it odd.

Does the jump distance mean from ZERO speed or MAX speed. If I engage jumpjets when going 120+ KM/H I will fly far more than a measly 10 meters.

[Flying Blind]

LordBraxton, on 27 February 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

well not only did you jump OVER the atlas but you traveled between 50-100 meters during the jump moving forward as well.

So idk wtf 5 meters means

I assume 5 Meters means maximum jump height but I have no solid info to back that up. also is that 5 meters at full speed? because going slower makes you jump higher. I am operating under the assumption that 5 meters is the MAX height no matter what speed and going fast reduces what I get but it may be that going slow adds height. testing that now.

[Sears]

I always figured it meant the distance the mech could jump, not the height. Not that the number seems accurate either way.

[Terror Teddy]

Ok, if we look at SARNA they say:

Quote

A 'Mech may have one or more jump jets installed; each thruster increases the 'Mech's maximum jump distance by 30 meters^[4] but takes up space and weight on the 'Mech's frame.

Also, the MINIMUM jump distance (if we look at the boardgame) is 3 hexes which by the original game is 30 meters per hex.

So yea, I'd say the numbers in the Mechbay are very inaccurate and does not really reflext how they work right now.

A better estimate would be the amount of seconds I can be airborne.

[Stringburka]

The issue is in the 'mechlab, I think. This because:
- The jumpjets are pretty balanced as they are, and are deliberately balanced to make you fly about as well as you do now.
- TT values shows (IIRC) that you can fly about 30 meters forward (I think?).

From what I've heard, an atlas should be around 13-15 meters tall (granted, figures vary and I don't have any reference to that).
It makes sense that a single jumpjet would allow you to more or less exactly top the atlas, provided TT values.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Well yeah it is a little odd, but that's what happens when they nerf the JJ's to what they're supposed to be... the community has a backlash and their data tells them to fix JJ's....

so in a hurry, what with their angry customers eyes watching.. they increase the speed at which you rise... suddenly JJs feel like you're actually jumping again... and somebody has to come say they're jumping to high.

Wow... just wow. Like every other stress filled day in the universe.

( I may have focused on the JJ part and less the scale of 'mechs )

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 27 February 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

Stringburka, on 27 February 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

The issue is in the 'mechlab, I think. This because:

Pretty much, I would really like to know my flight time in seconds instead.

[Flying Blind]

I have done some tests with a 10 meter jump rating and it is pretty easy to see that I am traveling WAY over ten meters in every direction.

I would really like to see jump measured in flight time also, I think this is a god idea.

new video:
http://youtu.be/dVT1Db4FGiY

[Terror Teddy]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 27 February 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

and somebody has to come say they're jumping to high.

WHAT? Who did?
The Jenner has the ability to jump 180 meters according to SARNA and if I could do that I'd be damn glad if the arc is a nice parabolic one so that at my apex I'm at 90 meters highto clear that mountain im about to crash into.

Perhaps they forgot a 0 at the end for jump distances.

Edited by Terror Teddy, 27 February 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

well not only did you jump OVER the atlas but you traveled between 50-100 meters during the jump moving forward as well.

But your horizontal movement has nothing to do with jumpjet distance. That's a product of your momentum from running.

Jumpjets are horrible right now. They need their fuel capacity at least doubled. A spider with 12 jumpjets should be able to jump 360m based on tabletop rules.

1) Jumpjets shouldn't decrease your forward momentum, esp. when landing
2) Jumpjets need higher fuel capacity
3) Jumpjets need directional thrusting
4) Jumpjets should recharge whenever they arnt being used (even while in midair)

Edited by Khobai, 27 February 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Terror Teddy]

Khobai, on 27 February 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

But your horizontal movement has nothing to do with jumpjet distance. That's a product of your momentum from running.

Jumpjets are horrible right now. They need their fuel capacity at least doubled. A spider with 12 jumpjets should be able to jump 360m based on tabletop rules.

Yea, they are kinda underperforming now if I go with maximum jumpjets.

[ElLocoMarko]

Yeah, let's hope they don't shorten the jumps and just raise the mechlab numbers.
I noted the same thing as you when I dropped my jump to 6m and still very much cleared an atlas.

If I lose "leapfrog" then my current LOVE of jumpjets will dissipate. I love the havoc caused when you strike and then LEAP!